Tanking in Tournaments
- The WSOP POY Oopsie!
- Should We Care if People in the US use a VPN?
- A Common Sense Rewards System
- My Perfect Poker Tournament
- The State of Poker 2019
- My Summer Schedule
- Top 5 Reasons the Vegas Golden Knights are Winning
- The Conclusion of the $100k Super High Roller at PCA
- Day 1 $100k PCA Super High Roller
- 2018 Annual Poker Goals Blog
So last night I got involved in a twitter discussion that started with poker pro Jordan Cristos condemning the WPT’s structure change to one hour levels at the final table. This has been the practice on the WPT for as long as I can remember, and while it certainly adds less skill to final table play, I fully support this decision. I’ve said this many times and I will say it again, when you think about what’s best for an event, you have to think of yourself as a small business owner (if you are a pro) that has two partners- the venue, and the tournament organizer.
In this case I’ll focus on the organizer. Many of you don’t realize how expensive it is to pay for a televised production. When you start going into overtime, the costs skyrocket to a point where it’s hardly feasible. PokerStars is able to fade the costs because they use these broadcasts as an advertising vehicle. The WPT isn’t quite set up the same way with a significant back end revenue stream. There is a huge misconception that the organizers are making tons of money off these broadcasts- it’s simply not true.
I said this 10 years ago and I’ll say it again, the skill is in getting to the final tables, then sure, you will be in a faster paced structure when the money is on the line, but it’s not like one hour levels create a total crapshoot. There is still plenty of play, especially if you don’t have players tanking for 4 to 5 minutes for every decision…
Which is a good segue into what this blog is really about- excessive tanking. The player who raised his concerns, Jordan Cristos, is widely considered by most in the community to have taken over the reigns as the new king of tanking. On twitter, various pros chimed in hoping to help Jordan understand that it’s not appreciated. At first, he came out forcefully defending his right to tank as long as he’d like to make decisions:
@SavagePoker poker is a game of patience and I’m fine with making k’s while they complain. #goodformygame #cameforme #tankingchangedmylife
@DarryllFish @RealKidPoker @SavagePoker I acknowledge a lot of peers/elites disagree with me but that won’t change who I am or how I operate
This tweet was very telling. Got it, you came for you. Got it, you see it as good for your game. Got it, you are gonna do you and not change at the community’s request. Fair enough, but later you claim that we should all “respect the game and respect your tanks,” but if you are unwilling to respect the structure and the other players, why would that warrant us respecting the fact that you are sabotaging the structures for the rest of us?
@RealKidPoker @DarryllFish @SavagePoker Ive never clocked anyone in my life cause I respect the community and the game. Get off ur horse KP
I clock people because I actually DO respect the community and the game! You came for YOU, remember? You are focusing solely on what you think is best for you, and despite the community telling you that you are being excessive with your tanking, you ignore their pleas to have you act more quickly.
You have every right to do that. It’s extremely selfish and shortsighted, but for now, you have that right as we don’t have a shot clock in poker.
@RealKidPoker @DarryllFish @SavagePoker so much hate for thinking thru decisions like everyone does when it’s crucial. I don’t get it.
Let me try and explain it for you. No one is saying that it’s inappropriate to take your time when decisions are crucial. However, when you are under the gun, first to act, and go into the tank, most everyone agrees that this is crossing a line! When someone 4-bets you before the flop and you take more than 2 minutes to respond, most everyone agrees that this is excessive tanking.
When I play with players who consistently act within a reasonable amount of time, I don’t call the clock on them when they occasionally take a few minutes to make a decision. If there is a habitual tanker like yourself, then you have lost that privilege and courtesy.
Dan O’Brien @DanOBrienPoker wrote:
@jcinblue @RealKidPoker philosophical principle Universality: if everyone operated that way, would the system be able to function? I say no.
This. If everyone acted the way Jordan Cristos does in tournament poker, it would cease to exist. Not only would it destroy the structures where you get only 10-15 hands an hour, it makes the game boring for amateurs, which also eats into a pros profits. This is a choice. Jordan talks a lot about respecting the game and respecting the players, but his actions show absolutely no respect for other players time or what is best for the game or the community.
We can all agree that there is a line somewhere. If a player took 20 minutes per decision, I would imagine even Jordan Cristos would think that is crossing the line? So there is a line, there has to be, and the vast majority in the poker community that Jordan Cristos claims to respect think he is crossing it far too often. He claims he isn’t going to change. He has that right, but no sir, that will not earn the respect of the community.
In closing, while you claim you are being berated by your peers, I don’t see it that way. I have no problem with you personally, you seem like a really nice kid. Having said that, I vehemently disagree with it being ok for you to consistently take as much time as you wish to make decisions. In the future, when I call the clock on you repeatedly, it isn’t personal. I’m just doing what’s best for me, the structure, the other players at the table, the poker community, the broadcast, the fans, and ultimately YOU.
I get that you don’t see it that way, but I tend to think bigger picture when it comes to stuff like this and I know that if behavior like yours becomes the norm then you and the rest of the pros will be out of a job.